Part 1, What really is an MOA?

I had been guilty of accepting the old 1 MOA is 1" at 100 yards.  I knew it was a sloppy rule but in general it worked.  But, when you start trying to understand your scope and its capability when trying to develop indoor practice methods, it helps to dig a little deeper and truly understand what MOA really is.

I will try to make this as easy as possible.  A Minute of Angle is a geometric unit of measure for an arc.  For those who dislike geometry, let's let look at it this way.  A circle has 360 degrees.  And, each degree has 60 minutes.  For me, that last little factoid must have been presented in class while I was out sick.   This well known detail had not been an area of knowledge for me.

Armed with this new knowledge, we then know there are 21,600 minutes of angle in a circle by the following simple math, 360 x 60 = 21,600.  So, if you are looking at the top of a oil drum, there are 21,600 arcs or MOA that make up the full circle or circumference   Obviously the "length" of those arcs is pretty short but they all add up to equal the circumference which we know as 2(Pi)r.

Assume when you are shooting at 100 yards you are the center of a large invisible circle and the distance between you and your target is the radius.  So, one large imaginary circle, much larger than the oil drum, with a 100 yard radius but still 21,600 MOAs!.  We know then that the circumference of this imaginary circle is 2(Pi)100 yards or 628.3 yards.  Divide the circumference into degrees, 628.3/360 = 1.7 yards for each degree.  But, we need to divide this further into minutes so we divide again by how many minutes there are in a degree which is 60.  1.7/60 is .029 yards in each minute of angle.  A fraction of a yard is meaningless so let's convert to inches.  36 *  .029 is 1.05".  Look familiar?  There is our sloppy rule of thumb that 1 MOA is equal to 1" at 100 yards.  As you can see, this is pretty basic math and now you can calculate what the length of a MOA arc is at any distance.  Below are some common distances.

Click on image for larger view

Part two will look at what this all means for you and your scope which will elaborate on why I have the last two columns to the right.

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10 meter Air match #3

Although the score would suggest disaster, the match tonight was a big win for me.  Tonight was an experiment and I feel I got some good feedback.

First, I decided to reduce my barrel weight by half.  Effectively reducing the front weight to 6 oz.  I did some research and I may have had my strategy wrong.  I had always thought weight out front was used to aid in "slowing down" barrel movement.  I may have missed the importance of gun balance.  My balance point on my rifle was well ahead of my front hand.  Now it has been moved back.  I might even add some weight on the back to further experiment.

I also realized I may benefit by sight risers as my head is not vertical.  But, I don't own them so that will be another day.

So, why did I not see better results?  Because I forgot to bring decent pellets.  All I had were the nasty Daisy pellets.  I am going to ignore the score.  I tested them afterward off the bench.  Of 8 shots, they held a seven but, that is if you are breaking perfectly on the center which I was off the bench.  An offhand 8 can turn into a 6 easily and that is why I am going to forget about the absolute numbers.  It is practice and I leaving it at that.  Bring the right pellets next time.

Here is a good discussion about rifle balance and I think there are some good takeaways to be found in this thread.

DATA

2012-13 Season score log

#1 501 (81 81 84 85 82 88)
#2 515 (87 88 89 83 85 83) 11x 7 or lower, 15 10x.  previous practice 1x
#3 485 (82 82 80 77 86 78) 19x 7 or lower,  7 10x. Daisy pellets, reduced barrel weight.

2011-12 Season score log

Match #1  515 (87 83 87 88 90 80)
Match #2  510  (85 89 85 86 82 83)
Match #3  532  (94 87 83 91 89 88)  (season high, 94/100 tied best ever 10 shots)
Match #4  530  (87 90 90 93 89 81)
Match #5  524  (86 84 88 91 85 90)  
Match #6  517  (88 85 88 87 90 79)
Match #7  524  (82 91 88 91 84 88)  

Personal Top three 600 scores.  Goal, 540.

539  (93 90 90 85 87 94).  11x 7 or lower, 22 10x.  11/??/08
532  (94 87 83 91 89 88)   3/??/12
530  (87 90 90 93 89 81)   3/??/12

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A useful blog dedicated to 10 meter Air Rifle.

I stumbled on this great website as I was looking for ways to improve my practice.  At this point, I am not sure if my lack of progress is due to lack of talent or lack of a poor practice regimen.  Or, perhaps a gun that is poorly configured for me to develop my talent.  All things to look at when you don't have any coaching available.

I decided to take inventory of my gun, an Anschutz 2002SSP..  Of course, blame the equipment!  Not really, I just wanted to collect more data so I can be more informed when and if I decide to change anything. For now, I am only going to change (reduce) the amount of barrel weight by 50%.  Zero cost experimentation.

Trigger.  My trigger (5021) is a two stage trigger and the final stage breaks at 3.7 to 4.0 oz after about 10 tests.  Most were in the 3.7 oz (105 grams) spot.  There are times I pull through it.  And there are times I think it should have gone but did not.  At such a light pull, it is a delicate issue when releasing the shot.  I need to research this trigger and see if the trigger is indeed designed to operate at this low a setting.  It is how I got the gun.

Front insert  Too small an insert, like too much power on a scope, makes me "jump around" and in general get the visual sense I am moving all over the place.  I may be using an insert that is too small but for now, that is all I own.  I use a 3.6mm.  A real set which ranges from 3.1 to 4.3mm.

Barrel Weights: I have been shooting with 13 oz (365 grams) of weights on the front.  I see many successful silhouette shooters put the maximum allowable weight on their barrels.  I figured more is better.  But it does add to fatigue.  I am going to try with half that amount and see what differences I notice.

Barrel extension.  I just happen to have an extender which lets me put the front globe 2.75" (70mm) further out giving added sight radius.  Technically this should help.

Armed with this info hopefully I can learn what to experiment with as I seek to hit my goal of a 540/600.

http://airrifleshooting.wordpress.com/

Any and all input welcome.

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TPM Results week 1

to enlarge click on image

Not a bad turn out!  Two countries and 4 States represented.  Hats off to Niklas!  37 is an impressive outcome.  I went back through my Air binder and actually found my targets from 2003.  My highest score was a 36 back when I was doing this seriously every week.

Some abbreviations. FT = Field Target, RT = Running Target.  CP = Crosman Premier.  IIRC Crosman Premier comes in two weights, lite and heavy and airgunners call them CPLs (7.9g) or CPHs. (10.5g)  They were the best Field Target/silhouette (domed) pellets for a period and came in a funny if not crude cardboard box in some odd quantity of 1250. 

I hope you all found this to be good practice.  Next set of scores....well, I will make it 2 weeks out.  We used to have a program that was weekly.  It bogged down.

Everyone has until 9 pm  USA Eastern TIme (GMT -05:00) December 9th to send in their best effort.  One target/score per gun for those of you with more than one airgun toy!  Looks like it is time to start using some quality pellets if I am going to catch Niklas!  The Bimcos were heavily oxidized and the Daisy pellets stink as they can only hold the 6 ring off the bench.

(link to blog entry with match rules and target)   Just in case you did not get in on the first match.  You can join in anytime.

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Happy Thanksgiving to all my American friends

I am blessed to have three extra family members with us this weekend.  That is a 100% increase in the normal number of folks around the table!

TPM or Thanksgiving Postal Match.  Yay, one score in other than mine!  That means we are up to two shooters!!  Victory.  I was concerned I would be the only one.  A nice FWB 601 "Running Target" got a chance to stretch her legs.  I am just trying to figure out how a scope fits on a 601.  IIRC the loading port lever pops up right in front of the sights.  I can't tell you the number of time I have gone to execute that perfect shot on my 2002SSP only to find I failed to close the loading port.  Always a stupid feeling.

The posting of comments seems to be inconclusive.  I think it works and believe it is mostly operator error.  We'll see.  I hope to have some fun comments going when I post the results.  I may change the format so that comments are displayed vs. having to click on them.  It was cleaner with comments suppressed.  We'll give it a try.

Don't eat too much turkey!

Smith-Corona 4S178564

Just in case you thought you were at the wrong blog, don't worry.  You are correct, this is a little off topic. I know, a distraction from the real objective but I had a request from my oldest daughter to use one of those silly contraptions us adults call a typewriter.  At the time, we had two but neither were ready for use.  I just happened to keep my Mother's college typewriter as well as my college typewriter.  Guess the apple does not fall far from the tree huh?!?!  The old manual from 1947 was easier to fix than its younger sister, Coronamatic electric c. 1980.  But they both work now.  Here is a sample from the oldest one.

Click for larger image

And, just if you are curious, this unit on the right is from what is called the "Speedline" portable family by Smith-Corona.  It is known as part of the "4 Series" Introduced in 1939 and briefly produced after the war while they tooled up for the new "50's era" product line introduced in 1949 called the "Super 5".  This particular example is the "Silent" model but it is no where close to silent.  So, the SN is a 4S which tells collectors all they need to know.  Funny, no number 1, you have to use the lower case L.  I typed on a 5 Series recently and other than more ergonomic keys, I can't feel the difference between it and a 4 Series.  For a full history of the Smith-Corona line go HERE.

Last Post

Test post soliciting comments.

For the upcoming Thanksgiving Postal Match (TPM) I want to have a harder look at why folks tell me they cannot post on this blog.  I have it wide open on the settings so anyone from anywhere can post.  Yet still there are no comments.  I see other blogs with tons of comments.  It actually gets a bit messy.  I think I might move comments on the postal match to either a YahooGroup or a GoogleGroup.  I invite opinion.

So, please make a comment about the color of the sky.  If you are a heavy internet user and have experience with either YahooGroup or GoogleGroup, I would invite you to comment on the pros and cons of either.

Let the comments begin.  There have been over 11,000 views of this website so I know someone is looking at it.

Thanks!

10 meter Silhouette Postal Challenge

I am going to have a little fun this winter with some indoor practice match opportunities.  For any folks out there who want to keep developing their off hand shooting skills, here is a 10m Silhouette postal match opportunity.

Print and shoot THIS target with your airgun.  Shoot 2 pellets at each animal, preferably wadcutters, and you get a point each time you touch the black. Maximum score is 40.  Shoot no closer than 10 meters or about 33 feet and you must use .177 cal pellets.  You can use any sight system you want but scopes sure help.  Unlimited time and unlimited attempts.  But you can only submit one score per gun.  Copy the template below and email JUST the template to me filled in.  My aim is to post results 24 hours later on the blog.  We'll see who is out there.

(updated 12/12/12 -- Next deadline end of day Jan 1st, 2013 for Match #3)

Name:
State:
Air rifle model:
Scope details if used:
Power used:
Pellet used:
Chicken:
Pigs:
Turkey:
Ram:
Total:

d  u  r  a  n  t  j  u  d  (a  t)  y  a  h  o  o  .  c  o  m

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Daisy 853 part 3

Well, in Part 2, it sure looked like a cool setup but, the scope was so high that at 10m, I could not get enough elevation and the pellet was 2" below point of aim even when at maximum elevation.  Having the scope that high above the center line of the bore contributes to this problem..  Bother.  The only reason I used that funny riser was because I have loaned out all my 3/8th rings and Weaver mounts is all I have left for rings.  Bob P. helped me out and loaned me some nice Burris Signature Zee rings.

A quick word about these rings.  Although the review in the link is for Weaver style mounts, they also come in 3/8-11mm size.  I did find the use of some +20 -20 in the back gave me a better optical zero.  Meaning, by putting in these "offset" inserts I was able to get closer to optical zero vs. running the target knob to the very top.  Never a good place to be.  I don't even want to open the "optical zero" can of worms.  It is more than most folks need to worry about.  Basically, the reticle is in the center of the lens which for long distance, precision shooting, is where you want to be.

Anyway, here is an updated picture with a Sightron 6-24x42.  Part of the now defunct SII line of scopes.  Used to be a great scope for $150 back in the early '90s.  It is now a back up, hack around scope for projects such as this.  Basically it is one of those old Japanese optics covered HERE.  This is all low dollar stuff.

Daisy 853 Part 2

There has been some interest so I thought I would share some more info.  I blew the dust off my 853, put a scope on it and shot it some.  I found it was tearing the paper vs. a clean cut.  Hummm.  Maybe It sat around for a while and things have dried up so I did some searches on what is involved in a putting in a seal kit.  In the process I found THIS thread and thought it would be of interest to those who are thinking about adding this useful practice tool to their gun closet. 

I also wonder if more testing is needed of my current 853 vs. my old results with the 888 which was CO2 powered.  I think most of you would agree, if the action, barrel, trigger etc is all the same, it is unlikely the power plant would make much difference.  But, there is that ASS U ME risk.  The above forum seems to have both very favorable and some semi-favorable comments.  Based on my prior 888 experience in Texas, I am VERY favorable about the ability of this Lothar-Walther barreled gun.

Then again, I have my 10m rifle and I would prefer to focus on shooting, not tearing down some old gun that I don't intend to shoot seriously.  If the mood moves me, I will oil up the seal and see what happens.  I hear Daisy sells reseal kits for $5.  I sent them an email.  I still think it is worth a $100 for a winter project at home if you don't own an accurate pellet gun.

Based on interest I was thinking of having a postal competition using THESE targets.  Two shots on each animal with whatever .177 caliber airgun you own at no closer than 10 meters.

10 Meter air, match #2

Full house! We had 8 folks shooting airguns at PSI!  Pellets are really a lot less expensive than bullets!  For me though, there was only one rifle shooter :(.  And, I don't see anyone raising their hand to try 10m air rifle.  We'll see.  I am enjoying shooting vs. running a shooting program!

It was a good night for me.  Still shot an unacceptable score but I learned more about what I need to do to improve.  That makes it a good night.  There were two key discoveries.

First, I found that if I work harder finding the right height of the butt in my shoulder, I can pretty much set the gun to a height that eliminates the need to "come down" or "come up" on the bull using "muscle input".  I need to explore this further.

Second, I found with the above discovery, I went from "pass shooting" to actually holding the bull inside the front aperture.  This introduced an entire new problem.  I am paralyzed by the fear of taking a bad shot, and therefore I can't get my trigger finger to break when I want to.  Bill P. says dry firing will solve that.  I would agree, some form of practice should reduce this problem.  I need to get to the point that the shot becomes subconscious.  I am miles away from that right now.

I also found an excellent blog with what seems to be a treasure trove of tips for the Air Rifle shooter.  I am going to try some that will work on my two findings from tonight.

Printable targets for air

DATA:


2012-13 Season score log

#1 501 (81 81 84 85 82 88)
#2 515 (87 88 89 83 85 83) 11x 7 or lower, 15 10x.  previous practice 1x


2011-12 Season score log

Match #1  515 (87 83 87 88 90 80)
Match #2  510  (85 89 85 86 82 83)
Match #3  532  (94 87 83 91 89 88)  (season high, 94/100 tied best ever 10 shots)
Match #4  530  (87 90 90 93 89 81)
Match #5  524  (86 84 88 91 85 90)  
Match #6  517  (88 85 88 87 90 79)
Match #7  524  (82 91 88 91 84 88)  

Personal Top three 600 scores.  Goal, 540.

539  (93 90 90 85 87 94).  11x 7 or lower, 22 10x.  11/??/08
532  (94 87 83 91 89 88)   3/??/12
530  (87 90 90 93 89 81)   3/??/12
 

The Crosman Challenger 2009

I have been away from the 10 meter youth scene for over 8 years.  In my day, it was all about the Daisy 888 which was the cat's meow.  I toiled to collect 8 of them for a 4H program I was starting.  Sadly none of my kids ever got interested.  When I left Texas I gave up all the equipment to the next leader of the club.  It was a good experience for me to be able to test out the affordable youth equipment vs. expensive adult equipment.

Crosman Challenger 2009

As a 'retired' youth coach I still get the CMP newsletter "On The Mark" which is always an interesting read.  Short version, there are great shooting sports programs in the South, in the North East, darn little is happening   I noticed that the youth  of today are now holding something different than the red white and blue laminated Daisy 888s.  These new guns are from Crosman.  They are called the CHALLENGER 2009 or just CH2009 pictured on the left set up for Silhouette. (notice the Premier Reticles boosted scope.  Scope is worth 2x the gun!...phew)

Here is a discussion regarding their adoption by youth programs.  I have not seen one in the flesh but from what I read they are superior to the Daisy 888.  The big drawback for youth, they are made for a bigger person in both hand swell and LOP.  Only operate at 2000 PSI vs. serious PCP guns which operate at 3000 PSI.  And, they are $525.  Maybe now you know why CMP is selling manual stroke 853s for $100.  More sophisticated equipment is making them obsolete.  But that does not change the fact they, the 853, are scary accurate for the money.

Just wanted to pass this along so those that might be serious about a real 10 meter gun would have that much more info in the arsenal.  There is much much more to know but this was a start.  If there is more interest I could go into some of the SSP guns.  

FWB (Feinwerkbau) 300S for those who want a 10 m airgun to be proud of.

FWB 300S

Ok, the Daisy is a cheap, price point gun that shoots off the bench like a $1,000 German made target gun.  And, why not, the barrel is German made.  But, for those who can't justify such a cheap, low quality, low tech gun, here is the next best option IMO.

I consider them the VW Bug of the 10m category.  They were made for 30 years starting in 1972.  Name another airgun in this category that was in production for 30 years!  In short, it was that well designed that it withstood the test of time until SSP (single stroke pneumatic)  and CO2 guns came on the scene.  This is a gun you can be proud to own and you can spend many days if not weeks scouring the internet to learn more about these guns.  They are 10 lbs and all German quality steel.

I have procured a few for folks and have shot them.  The recoiless system really does work.  When the trigger is released, releasing the spring piston which drives the pellet out the barrel, the entire action slides backward just a millimeter or two and that offsets the "felt" recoil.  It is ingenious.

Over the 30 years there were a number of different configurations.  LH and RH.  Youth (mini or Jr), running target, etc.  If you do go shopping, best to make sure it comes with sights.  You can put a scope on these but it is not easy and requires a special counter-lever style mount from BKL.  These are best shot with iron sights only unless you are determined to make it work.

Pricing.  Even though 250,000+ of them were made, they have some collectible value which is putting upward pressure on the price.   Used to be, these were $300 guns.  Now good condition guns are closing in on $500 or more.  I guess it is always nice to know you are buying something that is appreciating.  The best place to find them is on www.airguns.net under their free ads.

Here are some nice detailed photos.

There is a very useful 300S user group on yahoo.  I suspect you have to join it to see anything posted there.  But here is the link if you want to give it a whirl.  I am a member of the group so it always works for me.  Simply Google FWB 300S and you will find plenty of info such as THIS.

Next post, the new Crosman offering.

Cheap yet accurate 10m rifle, the Daisy model 853 Part 1

Go buy a Daisy Model 853 pump.  You can buy them used from CMP for $100.  Or new for $200.  Ok, stop your snickering.  These cheaply made die cast and plastic rifles just happen to have a Lothar Walther barrel hung off the end of that cheap action.  And, they shoot lights out!  PERIOD!  Review here.

The worst thing about these guns is the trigger which is made out of plastic.  But, like every accurate gun out there, creative folks have come up with a solution to solve that problem.  HERE is a article on how to fix them.  They happen to use a model 888 which is the same gun but CO2 powered.  Costs more, have to have a CO2 tank and connector.  They are even nicer and I had 8 of them for a 4H program in Texas.  Great guns and CO2 is way under appreciated as a propellant. Once you put in the trigger modification, put in the stock extensions, these youth intended 10m target guns are a huge bang for the buck.

Daisy vs Anschutz....need I say more?

The above picture or scan is for real!  In my Texas house I could shoot 10m indoors and even bench off the bed.  So, I put a 24x scope on each gun and fired 10 pellets at each dot.  First with the Anschutz.  The first objective was to match some pellets with my gun and then do the same for the 4H guns.  I had purchased 25,000 pellets from CMP for very little money.  Well, there was a reason why there were so cheap.  In truth, for the kids who were shooting, it did not really matter. Still, I wanted some data to see if there really was any difference.  In the process I learned more than just how poor the Daisy Chinese pellets were, I learned how good the Daisy was. 

I just about pinched myself after I finished with the Daisy.  I had a little buyers regret over the Anschutz which was 8x more money than the Daisy.  But, to make myself feel better, I went out and bought a sleeve (5,000) of JSB SCHaK pellets.   Look at the difference or lack of difference between the two guns! Words cannot describe it!!

So, if you think I am pulling your leg by suggesting you pick up a Daisy, I'm not.  The Daisy 853/888/887 are all basically the same gun.  The 853 is a pump and is the first version of this design.  The 888 is the same gun, same stock but with CO2 power.  The 887 is a 888 with a full size stock.  

I own a 853 and would be happy to loan it to anyone interested.  If folks show up with 857s and want some friendly competition, I will park my Anschutz and shoot my 857 right next to them.

Next post?  So, if you want something a little nicer and can't handle being caught shooting a Daisy.....   At the risk of causing folks to vacillate over Daisy vs the FWB300 and end up doing nothing.  Come on, $200 bucks for a Daisy....$100 if we put a club order together.......shoot groups like the above?  What are you waiting for?????

10 meter Air Rifle: 2012-2013 Season has begun

I guess this is the third year of air at Pioneer Monday nights.  I have been a less than devout competitor.  In fact, this blog was started out of my desire to create a way to make practice interesting.  Knowing that I have to document my progress, my results, my success and failure.  Amazing how different it is when you have to actually evaluate what happened and document vs. just chucking the gear in the car and leaving the range to pursue the next crisis of the moment.

So. match #1 notes:

I went in cold turkey.  First step is the gear.  Which was a problem.  I have misplaced my budget Kronus 65mm 45 degree spotting scope.  I tried to use a straight and it just did not work.  I ended up just focusing on shooting vs. shooting and looking at the results.  And, this may tell me something when I look at my scores.  Everything else was well organized.

Zero was a bit high so I brought it down.  I use Miesterkugeln wadcutters.  I own them and a few years ago, tests showed they held the 10 ring better.  I would like to burn up some miscellaneous stuff but, for 80 shots, what the heck.  Burn the good stuff.  I see you can even get them from Amazon.  HA!

The first three shots went like this.  9, 10, 8.....and then a 4.  DUH!.  This is a mental game.  I could not believe how well I was shooting and started to think about it.  Next an 8 then a 5.  WOW!  Got mad and worked on it.  9, 10, 9, 9 for a 81/100.  Crappy yet not considering.  If my two bad shots were 8s, I would have had an 88.  Still, not near my PBT (Personal Best Ten) of 94.  Ironically, after I gave up on the spotting scope I shot an 88 for my last target.  Guess I need to find that Kronus!

Lessons:

On the bottom bull, put the but up in the middle shoulder.  NO MUSCLES to get to the lower bull which I seem to do and have poor results.

Squeeze vs pull.  Pass shooting vs. slowing the gun down.  I might take some weight off the front. I am not sure the theory "more is better" is helping me.  At this moment, I am taking pull pass shots vs. squeeze hold shots.  Something to work on.

Never give up.  I started to get tired and told myself..DON'T EVER GIVE UP!  So, I had another nice reinforcing lesson.  My best 10 was my last 10!

Where it stacks up.  Last year my first match was a 515.  My PBT was 94, my PBS (personal best sixty) is 539.  Last year I only made it to 532 and that was a struggle.  So, 540 is this year's goal.  That is a huge number of points to pick up!  It all comes down to priorities.

#1 501 (81 81 84 85 82 88)

2012 or last year's results.

Next post, how you too can get into air this winter.

Want to see more posts about 10 meter air?  Just use the search in the top left and put in "10 meter' or just 'air'.